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Spiced Food and Gout
I think its about time I make some dietary lifestyle changes. I’m about 20 lbs overweight.
I’ve lowered my consumption of meat protein and added more vegs. Feeling much better already. But I’ve a few little tinges in my fingers and toes now, which from doing some reading seems about a normal reaction to increasing my exercise. (From nonexistent to moderately slow sedate 1-mile walk on treadmill every other day.)
I’ve made another appointment with family gp to talk over my uric acid levels etc. (only ever suffered one attack from Christmas to early Jan). At that time he put me on Indomethicin for 7 days.)
What I really pipped up here for is I’m so confused about the food tables. I know I need to have a balanced diet but find reducing meat might not provide enough protein.
So is Tofu an option? And if so, what do I watch for as not all brands are equal. I’ve a lovely recipe for braised eggplant and Thai spices in front of me right now that calls for among other things ginger root, black bean sauce (1/2 tsp) for 2 servings, 1 tsp red curry paste. and optional tofu? do I leave these ingredients out?
ciao
Ouch
Tofu is on the alkaline list. I use it with no problems- stir fries are the easiest way and includes those essiential [esp. for Gouties] mixed vegetables.
Use root ginger , garlic and chillies freely- but don't overcook the latter especially, as it will destroy the good fractional compounds in the heating.
If you make progress on alkalising your diet you may well find an increase in mild twinges on old sites of attacks- but you don't have these, like I do.
Though I like to stay meat free, and do so- I do have fish [Cod best for Gout -of the common ones] once or twice per week and also use it skinless- as that is where a lot of the purines lodge, apparently!
Been making good progress!
Curry additives like Cumin are really good for gout.
Good news all round, Ouch!
thanks you for info, I'll be adding the tofu to tonights supper.
I found one thing very intriguing in your reply. It was your mention of cod. When I first read this forum I thought fish was a high on the list of foods to really limit. So first thing I did was drop my daily codliver oil capsule. (something I've taken for over 30 yrs daily).
ciao Ouch.
Haddock usually seems to be on the' not for gouties' list , Ouch. I eat it also, but rarely.
Avoid prawns and shellfish !
A body does need high class protein to stay healthy and fish serves most of that need. Skinned is better , I think – and I always have childs sized portion.
On the EFAs I take an Omega 3 high quality (from US) supplement. I avoid gelatin by squeezing contents onto toast.
Codl iver oil is good for Vit A + D maybe, if added. They don't carry in the purines which are protein components. I would persist using it. Other moves will have more impact to the good that you are trying.
Oils are different, afaik.
Vit B12 is the one you have to watch (going low) long term, if staying meat free- and a supplement of this does no harm.
For fun- try the diet I've started- where a meat equivalent is:
Brown rice -boiled, almonds and sweetcorn- it's supposed to be the same as meat for amino acid content!
The iron absorption is limited in this combination also.
Might be boring- but add stuff! Like in the curry.
Where I applaud your efforts on diet is that you are 'getting in' very early- before you have a lot of UA build up to remove. { Hopefully]
The brown rice and almonds sounds very much like a vegiterian meat dish I've had and enjoyed. Will look at trying this one out.
thanks
Ouch, i don't think you need to worry overmuch on the protein intake unless you're a body builder or lumberjack.
The human body can get by on surptrisingly little- the secret is balancing the amino acids and also a healthy digestion to absorb correctly. Almonds are the most alkaline- but not the 'milk' made from it. A couple of brazils are good for you dail- but don't overdo [Selenium]
At a time when you're trying to get a handle on gout I think you can learn new diet approach easily. Other things you can research as you go!
On the bean Broth, try reading up the Black Bean saga on here- very useful to use- esp. at those twinge times.
Make some up, freeze it and defrost as needed. I take enough to do a soup and re -freeze it promptly. i use a screw cap old soup container [Sainsburys UK] and leave a gap for expansion on freezing ,too!
Thanks you Trev. I read the Black Bean saga thru twice last night, as I was having trouble sleeping from the little pin pricks in my fingers and toes.
After two re reads I was still a bit unsure about the beans. There are several different ones they call black beans in the shop, wish someone could just show a picture of what the dried bean looked like along with the correct botanical name. Then I'd be certain I was purchasing the correct one.
I'm purchasing a pkg of each today because its grocery day. Which ever ones are incorrect will get donated to the food bank, and I'll make up some broth with the other for me. Hubby still wants his fav chicken stock base in soups , so its just as easy to cook up two different pots of broth as to make just one .I've loads of little square freezer containers in both 1 cup and 2 cup sizes, and that would be handy for sure to just defrost individual portions as required.
Some on that thread said they drink it cold, but not the quantities the consume a day. 1 cup in morning, 2? 3? over the course of a day? or is that just a personal trial by error thing?
so much to learn.
ciao
Ouch
it is a bit trial and error Ouch- the official beans seem to be Phaseous Vulgaris , or Common bead as you'd expect from the name.
Meta has used Soya beans to good effect- but I prefer the common one- and they are easier to get , too.
I've got used to using it in soups now and it makes a good enough watery base- if you flash up the new batch in the pan,add your extras like a thick soup portion- then do the ginger, garlic shreds and chillies if you like. If your a curry type you'll have no problem. 🙂
I do 3 cups a day if needed but, tbh, I've not got that close to an attack to make me 'go for it' big time like Meta does. The general consensus here seems that BBB is safe if you take normal cooking precautions and store well. It will start getting lively after a few days , even in the fridge due to fermenting residues. This is basis of fermented beans, so OK afaik.You won't get drunk on it!
Obviously a slow intro is best in case you're allergic to anything- but with gout decisions don't take long on choosing helpmates… 😉
Another factor is the taste- quite earthy, but I've got to like it.
I wonder too, if the body 'twig's it's helpful in some way and your taste modifies to suit.
Easier in soup , anyway. Just had a batch after a few glasses of wine last night reminded me by 'way of toes'!
thanks you for your very imformative reply.
I imagine this can very likely be an excellent standin for the veg stock in recipes I currently make. The earthy taste should work quite nicely. Especially since many use mushrooms to acheive that taste and I'm alergic to those. As I do now I just add in additonal vegs (1/2 purey 1/2 whole vegs) , take out the mushrooms. Only change out will be the plain veg stock to black bean broth.
yum now I'm getting hungry and I shouldn't go to the grocery that way or the $$$$ will add up quickly.
ciao OUCH
Re: fish, the ones to avoid (highest in purines) are (sadly) dark oily fish, the ones most often touted as being best for one's health i.e. salmon, tuna, mackeral, herrings, sardines and right at the top of the list… anchovies ( my favourite
). Therefore, also beware condiments and pastes such as Worcestershire Sauce & Gentlemen's Relish – both made with anchovies.I'd use chilli very sparingly too; it's a known trigger
I have to admit I don't add chillies for any anti- inflammatory property- just to give a kick!
The garlic and ginger are definitely listed as helpful – but I've never had a problem with chillies either.I only use one two small ones.
odo thanks for the heads up on the Worcestershire Sauce. I have always used that quite liberably, its now been chucked in the trash.
I'll make note of chilies as possible triggers perhaps omit them. maybe I'll try a sweet red pepper an come up with a whole new dish.
trev I tried the black bean broth. not to bad tasting. but after and 1 hr and 1/2 boil I didn't have much bean juice left. just enough for todays cup after supper and two for tomorrow. (we have a restaurant luncheon to attend and I don't know what's on the menu. It might be required in a rush tomorrow for emergency pain releif)
I haven't noticed any effect on the tingles yet. Hopefully after I hit the pillow it will kick in and I can rest for the night. .
ciao OUCH
Hi ouch, welcome to the forum, and going back to your original post, yes this is the right place to discuss food and drink.
On gout diet generally, individual foods mean very little – it is your total diet that will affect your gout. Though even that pales into insignificance when compared to the 20 pounds of purine-rich human flesh that is with you constantly.
Gout diets only really make sense when you know what your uric acid level is. At 7 or 8 mg/dL, you might be able to lower below 6 with dietary changes, though this obviously depends on the scope you have to improve existing diet.
Even if you do fall into the group where gout diet can be effective, you can only judge it's effectiveness against uric acid levels. If a 'meal' of tomatoes and chillies gives you a gout flare, it is not necessarily bad. If the flare arises from old crystals dissolving, the pain is bad, but if you have a few less crystals to trigger subsequent attacks, that is good.
Without knowing actual UA levels in the blood, management is hard.
It's hard enough even when figures are known, as these can vary through the day. Long term trend is most important.
Further, matters are complicated by the fact that if one is dithering on the threshold of an attack, going through one -or even reducing urate in the body successfully, the figures can all blur together.
It's because of this tendency that gout is hard to treat easily, in my view, and not all Drs even try very hard to understand it.
Meds are an easy way forward- but as with all meds there may be a price to pay, eventually.
I doubt they will be considered in OPs' case without more attacks,and certainly not without a blood test.[PS On the BBB, try topping up with water and using a tighter fitting lid to reduce steam escape.
I flush my beans residue with boiling water to get another whack of residue from the batch]Alkaline dieting is my way forward. [But it aint easy]
My knee joints are improving (never gouty, but easily strained)
ouch said:
Post edited 2:11 pm – February 2, 2010 by ouch
…….After two re reads I was still a bit unsure about the beans. There are several different ones they call black beans in the shop, wish someone could just show a picture of what the dried bean looked like along with the correct botanical name. Then I'd be certain I was purchasing the correct one………
ouch,
The different types are black soybean (Glycine max (L.) Merr) and black turtle beans (Phaseolus vulgaris) :
Visually the main difference are :
Black Soybeans are bigger and the skins (husk) are dull.
Black Turtle Beans are smaller and have shiny skins (husk)
Hope that helps.
metamorph
Good stuff on this thread! Thanks for sharing everyone. Diet is something I'm always struggling with. I eat well, but I tend to overthink things sometimes. Should I have this when I had this and did I have too much of that and it's going to affect this……
I altered my diet recently and haven't had any red meat and only a weekly portion or two of fish for the last few months. I haven't increased grain or pasta but have instead been implementing more tofu, fruits and veggies. In the overall gout management scheme, it seems to be working well. I have some belly weight that I would like to lose and hope to start doing some light exercise beyond walking the dog and shoveling the snow from the driveway! Start out slow and easy and adjust as needed. I'm hoping to find a simple balance to take a lot of the thinking out of the equation. I really need to simplify my life, take some of the stress out of it. Live simple, live healthy, be happy!
Anyway, the tofu fajitas my wife made last night were fantastic! Seasoned with cumin, the tofu is great. I'm looking forward to my lunch today 🙂
trev yes you are correct my doctor is good but he has not dealt with many gout cases. He also has said come back “if it happens again” I had blood test with first attack, which was on the wain by the time I got past front desk appointment in two weeks min. wait time receptionist. so likely levels were down quite a bit. It will not be until Feb 11 I can get in to get the results. (no results over phone allowed… privacy issue here in Canada)
Meds were discussed first visit and it was basically a lets wait and see if there is another attack.
I said in my first post I'm about 20 lbs overweight. and agree with Gout Pal its one of my biggest problems. I have always eaten vegs, and we stopped redmeat consumption (except on the rare occasion) years ago. I'm not too into meat chicken at least 3 times a week I did eat fish (all the bad ones) shellfish (not any more), dried beans etc. all the things doctors have recommended for years for health. I might have one glass of wine a week, seldom drink any alchohol. So I truly think my first attack came from stored crystals in the fat. I started back in Aug using my treadmill (slow walk every other day 1 mile) I weighed 159 Lbs. first attack in Dec. I had managed to whittle off 9 lbs to 150 lbs. slow but sure weight loss, I'm not into excess exercise and starvation diets. But the attack put me back one month off any exercise. I've restarted using walking on treadmill again, added more water and vegs to diet, and I'm trying to now eliminate those hidden high trigger foods. (ie in the Worchester sauce anchovies I never knew that)
on bbb today I will make up another batch I've used the other already.
NateA watch the tofu. If you are not used to it. A little goes a long way. It is a concentrated protein. average adult portion is only 4 tbs. a day. its not big slab meat = equal size slab of tofu.
ciao OUCH
now its time to drink two big 8 oz of water get my sneakers on and do my mile.
that would be why the list of blood tests also included test of the creatine level, and the doctors recomendation drink water and lots of it when ever I take my little stroll. Although lactic acid I'm certain builds up when you do strenuous exercise. I'd hazzard my little every other day little stroll on the treadmill doesn't do too much. Lord it takes me almost an hour to do a mile.
the turtle would definitely beat me. look forward to the spelt menu its not something I've tried previously.
ciao OUCH
ouch said:
I said in my first post I'm about 20 lbs overweight. and agree with Gout Pal its one of my biggest problems. I have always eaten vegs, and we stopped redmeat consumption (except on the rare occasion) years ago. I'm not too into meat chicken at least 3 times a week I did eat fish (all the bad ones) shellfish (not any more), dried beans etc. all the things doctors have recommended for years for health. I might have one glass of wine a week, seldom drink any alchohol. So I truly think my first attack came from stored crystals in the fat. I started back in Aug using my treadmill (slow walk every other day 1 mile) I weighed 159 Lbs. first attack in Dec. I had managed to whittle off 9 lbs to 150 lbs……….
ouch,
When you mentioned that you were 20 lbs overweight I thought you were indeed full of flabs. Now I am a bit perplexed when you mentioned that you were 159 lbs in Dec. and whittled off 9 lbs to 150 lbs. At 159 lbs you were definitely not overweight, and at 150 lbs that's ideal, if your height is around 5 ft 9ins. (imperial units). Being a Canadian, you must be much taller.
I'm only 5 ft 2 in tall in stocking feet. I wish I was 5 ft 9 inch talll but alas I'm just a short wee little woman.
per BMI charts
5 ft 2 in person normal weight should be 104-135 overweight 136-163 I'm over weight for sure.and its time to take that excess baggage off. Last year Jan. 2009 I just looked back in my little notepad I weighed in at 169. so its been a good year a long haul with loads of modifications in my eating habits. but all worth while even if I do crave the odd peperoni pizza. .
ciao
hi,
has any one got a good recipe for curry, ive been told that there are certain spices that should be avoided if making a curry for someone who has gout. please help i want to impress him lol x
Go very easy on the chilli. If you must, use fresh, milder chillies rather than powdered – more for flavour than heat. Use plenty of turmeric, ginger & garlic, all very anti-inflammatory.
Chilli is bad for gout ? From all I've read all veg is OK. I eat loads of chilli – plus I like to eat it to properly spice food up. I love Thai food and the like and generally find it to be far far healthier than the average western diet.
Chilli is a known trigger for gout flares because Capsaicin, the substance that give chillies their heat is well known to contain a neuropeptide associated with the inflammatory process. But it also probably depends on what you cook it with and where you are in your urate lowering therapy. If your medication regime is well established, as many on here testify, you can probably get away with almost anything.
I find grated allopurinol makes a nice condiment to top off a curry. And toss in some Autumn crocuses.
Yummy.
My curries must taste like fire and cause the back of my head to drip sweat, otherwise I consider them failures.
When I ask for a Vindaloo extra spicy, the chef usually comes out and try to dissuade me, since he clearly sees I'm a Caucasian.
Only one meal had me screaming for help but that was a Korean Beef dish floating in a carmine red chili oil. Even Satan has to say no to that one. It should have been called Beef Auto De Fe. I think actually that's how they killed Joan of Arc, or Joan of Seoul.
Soy is processed.? There are possible links from soy to low thyroid function.? Low thyroid function links to… you guessed it, gout.? Short term it may look good.? Long term.. unknown. ? I stay away from anything processed.? There are enough whole foods out there we can eat to get the nourishment we need.? Eat those, eat natural.? This is my opinion and what I do for myself.??
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Tofu and Gout
This discussion is mainly about tofu and gout. Including tofu purine level Though it also includes eggplant and gout. Including eggplant purine content.
For a better understanding of all foods and gout, consider a Gout Foodies Plan. Though it’s better to match diet with uric acid control in a Gout Dieters Plan.